If the universe is curved, according to the new paper, it curves gently. Genetically, we now know the answers, the …, Virgil Smith was only 13, just barely a teen, when his quick thinking saved 17 lives during the wettest hurricane …, Americans are obsessed with their dogs, for good reason. Humanity has a long histoire of trying to figure out the great mysteries of the universe. It means the universe will expand forever and galaxies will collide into each others and create new energy and galaxies. That’s to say its fabric, spacetime, curves back on itself in any of 18-or-so potential shapes, like a donut, or möbius strip. Because we cannot observe space beyond the edge of the observable universe, it is unknown whether the size of the universe in its totality is finite or infinite. This 13-Year-Old has been Nominated for a Global Peace Prize, ‘Ghost Plane’: Dozens of Witnesses Want Answers For Silent Giant, Military Music Videos Take the Internet by Storm (Videos). When I was a schoolboy in the sixties, I wanted the universe to be bounded on the surface volume of of a 4D sphere, with time as the radius vector. [Excerpt from Michael Speaks: June 2011] [Oscar] Hey Mikeys =) I would like to know if the Universe is finite or infinite. To move 1/4 the distance you have to move 1/8 the distance and so on. Why 8 billion years ago the speed of the expansion of the Universe was less than it is now? Definitely Finite. I think that whether we consider the “Universe” infinite or finite is dependent on what we define as the Universe. If we think in terms of three dimensions of distances then it has to be finite but time is not finite and can’t say how but space comes with this 4th dimension. This is, of course, a fallacy. Everything has a beginning and an end, it may be so distant we can’t fathom it, but it still exists. “I AM” is defined as the Ultimate Wisdom and Power or simply as HaShem. I’ve entangled myself with this question all my life. Rather, if the universe is finite, it’s most likely ‘edgeless’. We have no idea if ours is the only universe. But the universe has only been around for about 13.8 billion years. Because of your limited ant perspective, the otherwise sphere-shaped balloon suddenly feels like a flat surface. The non-local one is not localized in space and so would appear as a uniform homogeneous background of radiation and particles. That’s what you can get when you can travel in one direction and never, ever stop. Beyond the yellow circle is an even larger (imaginary) one containing 4.7 trillion galaxies, the maximum portion of the Universe that will be accessible to us in the far future. The universe may be infinite, but we can only see a finite section of it due to the finite speed of light. As far as finite versus infinite, the answer to that may be unknowable.. but if the Big Bang happened once, who’s to say it can’t happen again? Ancient Greeks were the first to start asking questions as they observed the night sky. In the 1800s, astronomer Heinrich Olbers claimed that the universe couldn’t be anything but finite. thanks. There’s also a very likely possibility that the universe does have a finite mass, but it folds over itself in a way that makes it with no boundaries. It is dynamic (unlike the static Aether of old) but non-directional (“non-local”) and cannot be detected by a vector dependent experiment like that of Michelson-Morley. It was only this year that I heard about it. For IN HIM we live, and move, and have our being. Space is a part of universe when it is included as the distance between two stars or bodies. So the answer to the question “if the universe is finite, what lies beyond” is that there is nothing beyond the universe because the universe represents everything, including things “outside” of it. i.e. The local one is what we see when we look at the stars at night. The only place where these could hide from the outward eyes of God is simply inside of him. But it is also centerless and edgeless. (multiverse aside) According to theoretical physicist Janna Levin, if our universe is infinite, then possibilities are infinite – infinite galaxies, infinite number of planets, and given infinite time to search, I would eventually find another guy, on another planet, wearing gray sweats, typing on a keyboard, explaining why he thinks the universe is not infinite. How can something be unbounded if it is finite. Galaxies “appear” to be moving further apart, but not because of a “big bang.”. I believe that “Origin,” aka “First Cause,” is God Almighty, the Father, Son (Lord Jesus Christ) and Holy Spirit. We can’t see beyond that because we can’t see past where nothing exist. Many cosmologists now think our spatial universe is infinite. . He is timeless, spaceless, infinite and immaterial. You could measure its size with a really long ruler. If you decide to go on a journey, no matter the direction you decide to pursue, you will end up at some point in the same place you’ve started. If the universe is finite, what would beyond the edge of the universe be like? It becomes even more confusing when you think about the universe while also knowing that it keeps expanding. It would be interesting, to say the least, to see what the Universe looks like from THAT perspective. expansion, contraction, etc.) Haven’t astronomers tried to figure this out? Maybe we have been asking the wrong questions. In other words never get to “here”, as it were. But out there in the far reaches of infinite space, I suspect that other “Universes” do exist. Do we live in a finite or infinite universe? That seemed neat as it gave you the Hubble shift, and made time the odd vector out, and didn’t waste any of the 4D time-space. Space couldn’t be that infinite and yet remain that empty. The expansion of the Universe has carried them from 47.5 billion light years away. Of course they have, you fragile mortal meat man/woman! So, these are very good news . My vote? But because of what is NOT taught in our schools, we cannot even find the right questions! Good, it’s supposed to. [ouch my head already :-)] Despite being finite, the Universe would not have any kind of edge. It is made of cardboard. As depicted earlier, even people of Antiquity had trouble trying to figure out this daunting mystery. If the seeds of the Galaxies were created prior to the Big Bang(s) in the Hyperspace then the seeds of our Civilization were created there too…. That’s news. Our Universe is merely the Energy of a brief Dream [13.5 billion years is a brief time comparing to Eternity] inside the Infinite “I AM”. Join our 836 patrons! At the speed of light space/time and time/space become equivalent (1/1 is equal to its inverse, 1/1). At the same time is true that there is nothing beyond the end of the universe. I’d say that there are Infinite Dimensions (One Super Dimension of Space) and the Multiverse is a projection of a Hyper-dimension onto a Sub-dimensional space (like a 3D object projects a 2 dimensional shadow and it is easer to get the idea if you understand that a hypercube is for a cube what a cube is for a square). The Universe is definitely finite but WITHIN an infinite Consciousness. Both behaviors are statistically the same as seen from within their own reference systems. Namely, it is very difficult to state what would happen at the edge of such a universe. You can't go outside of everything. The other comments seem to be from scientists, which as an MD, I only pretend to be. Cosmology - Cosmology - Finite or infinite? You could also follow up statements like that with all kinds of crass shenanigans. If you are a two dimensional creature embedded in the surface of the sphere, and you start moving in the same direction(you can only travel forward or backward and up and down since u r 2D), you would not find the end of the sphere, and since you are a two dimensional creature you would not have a Your argument is similar to Zeno’s Dychotomy Paradox. Edwin Hubble (famous astronomer) discover that all the galaxies are receeding from us. What I’ve learned so far is that with every advance we can only marvel at how much we have yet to learn. The final line in this thread of discoveries came through Edwin Hubble. Then it is finite. And if it is not infinite, is space infinite? If the universe is finite, what would beyond the edge of the universe be like? Infinite is but an excuse for the unknown. This means that, at present, we know that the universe i… So the answer to the question “if the universe is finite, what lies beyond” is that there is nothing beyond the universe because the universe represents everything, including things “outside” of it. A lower bound of the Universe being at least 11 trillion light years in all directions is tremendous, but it's still finite. I think all that makes our universe must be limited and if you could go far enough there is probably another universe and many others out there in their own stage of development. If it is indeed true that it is finite, then God created the whole universe in a finite amount of time. Even if there would be a supposed edge, whatever lies beyond it is still considered the universe. We, however will never cease to exist because we will transcend to the Infinite Dimension of the Eternal Memory of the Great Mind of HaShem. Many people think that it does not make sense for the universe to have a limit in “spatial size,” some think it is flat, some think it is spherical, and so on and so forth, but no one knows for sure. Confused by that last, “finite and unbounded”. Through extensive research, scientists concluded that the universe must have come into existence approximately 13.8 billion years ago. Doesn’t that prove to be a contradiction? Then I said it all depends on whether the Universe is finite or infinite. Zeno argued that movement is impossible. [3] [57] [58] Estimates suggest that the whole universe, if finite, must be more than 250 times larger than the observable universe. Based on this, our Universe is 93 billion light-years across. See But an infinite universe has no size by definition. A rational answer to these questions is that there is something beyond the material universe — a creator, an unlimited being that shares of itself … So the question is “is our physical universe of matter and energy finite with empty space going on forever around it?” Or does our universe contain an infinite amount of matter? We can only see those parts from which light has had time to reach us since the beginning of the universe - which means we can (in theory) see a spherical universe with radius of about 47 billion light years. Sorry, your blog cannot share posts by email. By simple extrapolation, the Universe, specific and orderly, is a finite image in the mind of God. If someone hands me a closed cardboard box, I can then define a “size” for the box, and also what I mean by an “inside” and an “outside”. We can only see those parts from which light has had time to reach us since the beginning of the universe - which means we can (in theory) see a spherical universe with radius of about 47 billion light years. Consider this. However, I had a search for the number of particles in the observable universe, and I can only find this figure. Because of gravity, it would essentially collapse into itself. To begin with, you need the additional hypothesis that *all* matter in such infinite universe is made from a *finite* set of elementary particles. Nobody expects to travel so far you hit a wall. That’s another lovely idea, but it would need gravity to vary with time, which is pretty much doesn’t. It will not appear in mainstream journals either: if an article were submitted, it would be thrown out by the editors; it would never even see peer review, where it would probably be thrown out as well. The Universe has been expanding all this time, but that expansion rate is both finite and well-measured. Here is a recent historical perspective of the complexity of the subject matter: And we weren’t the first. My email address is [email protected]. Podcast (audio): Download (Duration: 6:15 — 5.7MB), Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Android | RSS, Podcast (video): Download (Duration: 6:37 — 78.4MB), Good except you can spin out variations – bounded or unbounded for example. And then a World War II-era ghost plane …, When this music video starts, the beat makes you start bopping along and you know all the words. Assuming a finite universe, the universe can either have an edge or no edge. This is related to the problem of defining space and time. If we try to define finite bounds for the “universe”, the very definition of a bound means there is something outside of the boundary, otherwise there would be no boundary. Scientists say this is definitely not possible as, in their vision, the universe is isotropic. Spaces that have an edge are difficult to treat, both conceptually and mathematically. We think that ‘infinity’ presupposes replication, but that’s human math. How could people who are mere finite collections of atoms in motion ever conceive of, and then explore, an infinity like pi? Tony Padilla from Numberphile has estimated that number to be 10 to the power of 10 to the power of 70. I was not referring to taking a bus with Zeno for a distance. (I suspect we are in a region(causal patch) of the 9th iteration.) We have to accept the definition of what the universe is. Ooh, big deal, you think. The universe must be infinite. “Finiteness” or “Infiniteness” of the universe is one of the many mysteries where scientists run around like a chicken with its head cut off trying to figure out! How could people who are mere finite collections of atoms in motion ever conceive of, and then explore, an infinity like pi? . The majority of scientists today believe that our universe is extremely large, but finite. Alternatively, there’s nothing beyond the universe because it’s simply infinite and it molds into itself in a four-dimensional space. This theory was famously debunked by Isaac Newton, who made a monumental discovery: gravity. The initial answer to whether the universe is infinite or finite is a resounding… we don’t know. There is no edge of the universe. This would also mean we would need to re-define the universe to include what is outside the boundary. One crazy theory about duplicate of yourself. In a cubic meter (or yard) of space. The reason there is newborn deaths is because no being can be born without a soul, and if it is, it dies. by Michael Broussard | Jan 9, 2017 | Curious News. I believe it is finite from the standpoint of energy-mass. 6-Year-Old Debuts as Weatherman, Mr. Rogers Documentary is Coming, And We Are Thrilled. It doesn’t fit with relativity or the evidence, though. A spherical universe is bound but you can go around it forever (a 3d visible universe bent around in 4d space for example.). In another episode of Guide to Space, we talked: “how big is our Universe”. But I must have the physical box first; the box is not “made of” an inside, an outside, and a size. Something has to start where something ends, right? Many finite mathematical spaces, e.g., a disc, have an edge or boundary. It is impossible to know what, if anything, existed before our universe. Also, as has been mentioned in earlier posts, there is a “start” point, so bounded at t=0 therefore finite. If the universe is finite, what would beyond the edge of the universe be like? I hate to make a guess based on : “(A) is the right choice because (B) is too silly” …but in this case, B is too friken silly. However, if ,as scientists tell us, we see evidence of the big bang and inflation every direction we look, then this would be the wrap-around. You are probably using the following probabilistic argument: If all configurations are equally likely then the probability of a given configuration never repeating itself is zero. For starters, the fact that we know the observable universe to be 93 billion light-years across is astonishing — that’s a great story in itself, and you can read about it extensively here — but how do we know it? This is circular reasoning, and also a fallacy. Both possibilities have mind-bending implications. The answer to that query is \"probably not.\"One reason involves the \"cosmological principle,\" said Robert McNees, an associate professor of physics at Loyola University Chicago. Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window), Click to share on Pocket (Opens in new window), Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to share on LinkedIn (Opens in new window), Click to share on Tumblr (Opens in new window), Click to share on Pinterest (Opens in new window), Click to share on Reddit (Opens in new window), Click to email this to a friend (Opens in new window), No, a Giant Asteroid Isn’t Going to “Skim” Earth on Friday, http://www.universetoday.com/119297/how-do-we-know-dark-matter-exists/comment-page-1/, http://www.todayinsci.com/E/Einstein_Albert/EinsteinsUniverse-NYT2Feb1921.htm, Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 International License. But how would we ever know? The observable universe is still huge, but it has limits. The local behaviors are composed of space/time relations and the non-local behaviors are based on the inverse: time/space relations. Seeing that we can’t even get past the moon right now I don’t think it matters! As for what is beyond this finite Universe, that is a question raised by materialists who cannot grasp (it is very difficult to grasp) that beyond this Universe there is neither space nor time. At just …, The reports are eerily similar. If the universe is finite, what would beyond the edge of the universe be like? Even it’s finite only portion of it we can see. Parralel universe, and with the infinite universe theory it just goes on. They’ve obsessed over it, and ordered up some of the most powerful sensitive space satellites ever built to answer this question.Astronomers have looked deep at the Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation, the afterglow of the Big Bang. And consider scientists like Blaise Pascal. A flat universe agrees with both observation and theory, so the idea now sits at the heart of modern cosmology. Outside lies an empty void. [59] That in my own opinion is infinite. In which case could or have other “Universes” existed or exist now. What we know with certainty is that the Big Bang occurred 13.8 billion years ago, meaning that is the age of the universe. Therefore perhaps we can than say that our Universe or Observable Universe is finite because what is beyond is completely casually disconnected from us. Additionally, the thinking now seems to be that the Universe is both centerless and edgeless. There is a being whose existence is beyond the present heaven and earth. So can not be finite. In that case a given cubic meter of space may indeed be unique because once you go far enough you stop finding similar particles so you “miss your chance” of finding a duplicate. Infinity is endless; you’d never get there. A finite universe has a finite size that can be measured; this would be the case in a closed spherical universe. There would also be particles with “inverse masses” moving through our reference system at (approximately) the speed of light, and also homogeneous and isotropic. Light has been travelling towards us for 13.8 billion years this way, and 13.8 billion years that way, and 13.8 billion years that way; and that’s just when the light left those regions. My gut tells me that due to the fact that the Universe is temporally finite with an age of 13.8B years that there is something beyond, a cause resulting in an effect, but that is all I have. Later, Einstein developed the renowned theory of gravity which placed him right in the middle of the typical two perspectives. But even if you assume the same finite number of elementary particles throughout the entire (infinite) universe, the argument still fails, because there’s no law that requires a given configuration to repeat itself. Although he is not a "real meteorologist" you are …, Mister Rogers will forever remain an enigma for those who grew up with the show. The other portion is traveling away from us so fast we will never ever in human existent can see it. That’s an “at least” figure. Sometimes I think we stretch out our minds to contemplate that which is beyond our comprehension or ability to prove, because we don’t want to dwell on our limitations. The problem is that, unlike a spherical universe, a flat one can be infinite — or not. My question is, as I observe all that I can, I see no perfect replication. To try and help people envision this image, people launched the ant and balloon comparison, which is very popular and appropriately explicative. The universe may be infinite, but we can only see a finite section of it due to the finite speed of light. I guess isn’t what is beyond the universe the fourth or fifth dimension? Where does all the “stuff” come from? Is space a part of it? http://www.facebook.com/octavian.peagu, Simply thinking – if its finite then it has to have a boundary, what is beyond that boundary then. Our Universe occupies only a small area of The Great Mind of HaShem. There’s just no other better way to put it. Or does “space” only exist inside the universe, and not beyond? Can one have infinity without spacetime? That being said, it’s pretty much impossible for us to ever reach the end of the universe if it does exist. Consider your example above, “if you travel outwards from Earth, eventually you will reach a place where there’s a duplicate …”, the distance travelled is measurable (albeit mind numbingly vast) and therefore finite, the “duplicate of you”, can’t be an exact duplicate, because if it were, it wouldn’t be where you found it, it would already be at a distance from where you are then, equal to the distance of there to where you started from, equally failing to find it’s “first” (your second) duplicate for the same reason. It is finite. We may call it The Area of the Dream. That slow bending isn’t important for moving around our lives, or solar system, or even our galaxy. Now this said the 'Universe' expanding from the the Big Bang is indeed finite. And if the Universe is finite, well, it’s finite. In these scenarios, you can travel forever in a straight line, and you’ll eventually wind up back where you started. If you think about it, this is a very strong assumption once you accept the possibility of an infinite number of particles. That’s a number so big that you can’t actually write it out with all the pencils in the Universe. Eventually, the growth rate started to diminish and the universe entered a certain status of inertia. So, BIG, yes, but definitely finite. Possibly an infinite number of duplicate observable universes. We do not know what, if anything exists beyond 15 billion light year radius from the epicenter of the Big Bang. However, accepting that the duplicate would be there at a finite distance, the total distance between you and the nth duplicate is also clearly finite (although I’ll cede that “n” being undefined, the distance could be considered “nthfinite”) Time itself can be finite. And, looking at Autumn Peltier, the future is in good hands. On top of that, there is a group of Gods, Jehovah is the one that oversees this part of the universe but the universe is divided into quadrants, there is a God for each with one overseeing all. Weeks and his colleag… This is just another reason to believe that the universe has expanded, even beyond our exploration capabilities. Two possiblities exist: either the Universe is finite and has a size, or it’s infinite and goes on forever. They were also the first to bring up one of the greatest debates (and disputes) regarding the nature of the universe. You might …, Clashindarroch Forest is now confirmed by science to be inhabited by the Clashindarroch Beast. I’d say that the Universe is Finite and the Multiverse is Infinite. Close. Even the scientists can’t explain the existence of our Universe without adding more dimensions into equations… as if the creation (and evolution) of the Multiverse is a Top-Down process, not a Down-Up as if it would appear Out Of Nothing (that would be magic like in those stories with Wizards)! On the other hand the Cosmos, which I prefer to think of as the dark of space is probably infinite. Observers internal to such a universe will observe it to be open and infinite, even though externally the bubble universe is finite and geometrically closed. Here we are discussing about the universe. God existed before time began. The actual math involved in this question is infinitely over my head, but I can often visualize the gist of the problem and even sometimes follow the physics. I wish I could study more for a deeper insight but that depth seems to be infinite as well . The universe is infinite, AND getting bigger. Welcome back to our Fermi Paradox series, where we take a look at possible resolutions to Enrico Fermi’s famous question, “Where Is Everybody?” Today, we examine the possibility that Earth hasn’t been visited by aliens because interstellar travel is not very practical! The fact that at “the Edge of the Universe” were found many “adult” galaxies, well formed, instead of young undeveloped galaxies as they were supposed to be in the Early Universe, makes me believe that those galaxies are adult “alien” galaxies from other Universes from vicinity much older than our Universe (that’s why we see those galaxies very well formed), and that is a proof that our Universe is merging with those Giant Universes from vicinity, like Milky Way will merge with Andromeda galaxy in the far future! Second, we live in a universe. I’m back to shed my cone of shame and talk big universe. 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